Posts by Cold Steel

34

Order in the universe

by Rattigan350 in

this topic was covered in book study last night.

some commented that the universe is ordered and the stars don't collide.. that has nothing to do with order.

it is more to do with that there is more space between the stars and planets and things go between them if they were in the same area.. and do they not consider that the many things that colliided with the moon to make those crators?.

Cold Steel

The Universe has handed us plenty of surprises over the past century and has kept book publishers busy correcting things astrophysicists thought they knew, but had to rethink. This isn't bad in the least, but it shows just how incredible it all is. Whether there is a God or not, what's out there is incredible, and we haven't even scratched the surface of what we think we know. There could be as many universes as there are galaxies, or even stars. Where does one draw the line?

If we do acknowlege that there is a God, it would be the height of narrow-mindedness to think that we're God's first creation, or the last. Christians and Jews who believe in a God of limitless power are faced with the question of why it would take God six "days" (or unspecified "eras" of time) to create this world when, otherwise, He could just speak it into existence. For that matter, why could He not speak the entire cosmos into existence with but a word?

The scriptures suggest that God created this world out of pre-existing materials, not ex niliho, as the churchmen concluded in the Fourth Century. The question, regardless, is why creation? If there is no God, no creator, then why does this all exist? Saying that matter has always existed is as problematic as saying that God has always existed. Matter cannot come into being, nor can it be sustained, without energy. And energy doesn't just happen spontaneously. And if there is a God, why would He create angels, worlds, man, plants and animals, and books? Why would He have no peers, a single, self-existent Being?

Then there are the paradoxes. Eternity----> Present <----Eternity. Even arguing the absence of time as we understand it, God would have had to be alone for a very long period of time before He acted to create. What was He doing during all that time? Here's a Being of matchless power, glory and intelligence, and He's the only one of His Kind and has existed for an eternity without creating a thing.

In Genesis, however, the Hebrew term Elohim is used, which denotes a uniplurality. Thus, we have phrases such as, "Let us make man in ourimage, after our likeness," and, "Man has become one of us, knowing good and evil." Thus it's entirely possible that the creation of this earth was carried out by others under the oversight of God. Modern scholars refer to this as a heavenly council, references of which are found in many ancient Hebrew accounts and also the book of Job. According to many of these, this is when Lucifer and his hosts rebelled and were cast down to the earth.

However the Universe was formed, we can't be certain it's the only one. And if there is no God, it was a magnificent occurrance.

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14

Easy to believe the FDS gets direction from God if you do this. Did you?

by Wasanelder Once in

ok how many of you while a jw took the advice to pray on a problem and then open the bible and start reading.

did you seem to get "just the right scripture" that answered your prayer?

they encouraged that where i was.

Cold Steel

WasAnElderOnce: ...the advice to pray on a problem and then open the Bible and start reading. Did you seem to get "just the right scripture" that answered your prayer? They encouraged that where I was.

Yeah, I've heard of that one.

A few years ago, a mentalist by the name of Derran Brown got a group of people together, gave them a short form to fill out and an hour later returned with envelopes. He gave each person an envelope with their name on it. The people were amazed how well Brown was able to peg each one of them without knowing anything, really, except their names and maybe where they were from.

He has amazed people with his misdirection and his uncanny abilities, and each participant, when interviewed after reading his summation, thought he posessed some sort of psychic powers of intuition. In fact, all but one was stunned. But what was even more amazing is that, after he let them exchange them with others, they all realized he had given them all the same write-up! It turns out that it was just how the people read them. All of them were able to see themselves in the same write-up.

So no wonder this scripture miracle takes place!

8

Sparlock increases his Satanic army

by Splash in

it's been confirmed by other religions.. satan is attacking us though the toys!!.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/10736999/lego-is-a-tool-of-satan-warns-polish-priest.html.

splash.

Cold Steel

After seeing part of the Lego Star Wars, I realized that both Lego and George Lucas were in league with Satan.

40

Letter to Governing Body .Recorded conversations with Elders

by Watchtower-Free in

i found this on youtube...very good example of twisted reasoning by elders.. .

recorded conversations with elders by a former pioneer....a series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw8amuphqis.

Cold Steel

One question I've always had is why people bother with these meetings? When I bailed out of my church, I just stopped going. I didn't write any resignation letters, nor trouble those in authority there. True, they came to me, and even told me I was on a greased road to Hell (generally speaking). I've also read numerous near death experiences and I don't know of one where someone was asked which church they belong to. Many were asked what they had done for their fellow man, but no one was asked about their church affiliation, day of worship, how they believed on a certain doctrine or what they thought the name of God was.

So does one do it in the hopes that they'll somehow be able to change an elder's mind? Or do they find it redemptive for themselves in some fashion? I'm just curious.

For those of you who were once elders, did such "apostates" have anye effect on you?

9

To the angel of the church in Ephesus

by kassad84 in

the one who holds the seven stars in his right hand, the one who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:.

i know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; and you have perseverance and have endured for my names sake, and have not grown weary.

but i have this against you, that you have left your first love.

Cold Steel

I spent much of last night reading a book by David Pack, of the Restored Church of God. In the book, Pack, succssor to Herbert W. Armstrong, of the Worldwide Church of God, writes that Armstrong was the "church of Philadelphia" and that everything he, Armstrong, went through was foretold by John. Its theology is just as steeped as the WTBTS, and its members are just as determined that they are the fulfillments of God's choice people. To them, however, the issue isn't the divine name, but the Sabbath. Peck and Armstrong quote the scriptures stating that the sabbaths of God are a sign between Him and His People, and that anciently they refused to abide in those sabbaths. So everything they see in the book of Revelation is tied in to Seventh Day worship. In other words, they see themselves in every fulfillment, going so far as to say that Herbert W. Armstrong was the Elijah who was to return as stated by the prophet Malachi, and that the youth outreaches he performed was what turned the hearts of the children to that of their fathers.

In the same sense, the Jehovah's Witnesses and the GB see themselves as fulfillments of scripture, and in both cases, of course, neither has had it confirmed of God through angels or visions, and so forth. And though Pack argues that the name of the true church has always been the "Church of God" (confirmed by twelve references in the New Testament), the JWs always have the scripture, "Ye are my witnesses, saith Yahweh."

Pack's church, if one compares the two claims, stands on much firmer ground, but both are grounded in assumption.

13

GB when they die, there's a paradox

by pixel in

so, i was thinking about pierce's dead.

so, supposely he is in heaven, right?

and down here on earth, they are going to give a talk about him, maybe with his body present or his body already buried, but the question is, if his body is still here on earth, what went to heaven?

Cold Steel

DATA-DOG: [ Uh?? Didn't they just say the spirit went back to GOD???]

Ideed. This apparently means that we were all once in Heaven (or first estate) and that we're now here (in our second estate). When we die, we return to God. That's why the Lord told Jeremiah, "Before you were born I knew you. And before you came from the womb I ordained you a prophet unto the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5) And it's why Jesus didn't correct the apostles when they said, "Rabbi, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?" (John 9:3)

Thus, if man lived before he came here, it makes sense that he would not cease to be when he departed this life, but would return from whence he came. Many near-death experiences recount people meeting people they knew before they came to mortality, but who lived at different times. That's why many people feel that, in death, they feel like they've come home.

The JWs, on one hand, say that Jesus had a premortal existence, but they say he didn't go to heaven when he died. They're partially right in that Jesus did not ascend unto his Father until after his resurrection, but the scripture says that he went and "preached to the spirits in prison." (See 1 Peter 3) These souls were disobedient in the days of Noah and in other ages where they didn't have a full opportunity to hear the gospel in its fulness. These miscreants were thus able to live as spirits, but to be judged as though they were in the flesh. (1 Peter 4) When we die, we will not be able to return to the Father until after our resurrections (like Christ). Until then, we live as spirits in Paradise, which is a holding area between death and the resurrection. As the church father Origen said, it's a place of learning, or school of the spirits, in which everything they did on Earth would be made clear to them.

13

GB when they die, there's a paradox

by pixel in

so, i was thinking about pierce's dead.

so, supposely he is in heaven, right?

and down here on earth, they are going to give a talk about him, maybe with his body present or his body already buried, but the question is, if his body is still here on earth, what went to heaven?

Cold Steel

Yeah, did you ever see the Brit comedy Red Dwarf? An officer by the name of Arnold Rimmer screwed up and a radiation leak killed him and everyone else on the ship except for Dave Lister, who was in stasis, and his cat Frankenstein, who was protected from the radiation by the extra paneling. Three million years later, the ship wakes up Lister and downloads the memories and personality of Arnold Rimmer and turns him into a hologram. This hologram is called "Rimmer," and the only difference between him and the original (who died), is that he had a capital "H" on his forehead -- that and that he couldn't touch or be touched because he was a projection.

But the point is, Rimmer's entire intellect and persona were simply copied and pasted, so to speak. And in one episode, the hologram and Lister went back in time and holographic Rimmer tried to warn the "original" of his impending doom.

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13

GB when they die, there's a paradox

by pixel in

so, i was thinking about pierce's dead.

so, supposely he is in heaven, right?

and down here on earth, they are going to give a talk about him, maybe with his body present or his body already buried, but the question is, if his body is still here on earth, what went to heaven?

Cold Steel

If Jesus had a premortal existence, then he is an eternal being. And if he didn't go to "heaven" when he died, where did he go?

He went where all men go when they die; he went to the spirit realm, where he "preached to the spirits" in prison. Even though he was put to death in the flesh, he was "quickened" (or made alive) in the spirit. This realm is divided into Hell and Paradise, and is a holding area for spirits until the Judgment and Resurrection. God does not dwell in Paradise, but as Origen (an early church father) put it: “After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of teaching, a school of the spirits in which everything they saw on earth will be made clear to them. Those who were pure in heart will progress more rapidly, reaching the kingdom of heaven by definite steps or degrees.”

The apostle Peter bore this out when he wrote:

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

This explains Jesus' statement to the thief on the cross: "Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise." The Jehovah's Witness argument that Jesus was saying, "Look, I'm telling you today, you will be with me in Paradise." It doesn't make sense on a number of levels. First, there are no other places in scripture where Jesus or anyone else states that they are saying something "today." It's not necessary. Also, nowhere does it say that Paradise is Heaven, nor would the thief be a candidate for Heaven. If Paradise is a place of learning, or school of the spirits, as Origen said, then Jesus' statement to the thief makes perfect sense. And it explains why Jesus had not yet ascended to his Father in Heaven. Peter again elucidates this in the very next chapter where he writes: " ...who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

Jesus judges both the living and the dead. And in the spirit world he explains that ordinary men can hear the gospel preached to them, even though they're dead. That they might live as spirits, yet be judged as if they were still living in the flesh. This blows the concept of man being just a life force that ceases to be at death. And once a life force ceases to be, a recreation, or reinstitution, of that life force is simply an exact copy, with all the thoughts and memories of the original. It will be "you" in every respect; however, God would be able to make as many copies as he wished. In other words, he could reconstitute you as many times as he wished, since all you are is a life force, and I don't believe that doctrine for an instant. There's only one "you" — and if you cease to exist for any reason, you will simply be a recreation if he decides you're worth keeping around. .

So whether Jesus was Jehovah or Michael in premortality, he had to have had a central processing element that could be put into a body or taken out of a body, and that is an eternal spirit. If the prophet Jeremiah was chosen and ordained before his birth, the same thing must have been true of him. (See Jeremiah 1:5) And if him, then us. That is why Guy Pierce, as a spirit, is now learning the gospel as it really is.

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132

the bible and its prophecies

by Crazyguy in

i have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own.

its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like daniel probably written about a hundred years before christ and some of it maybe even after.

but what i don't get is the prophecies.

Cold Steel

I’ve found that when people reject the gospel message and become embittered, that they lose all perspective. Atheists also lose the ability to act in their own self interest as well as their own self worth. It’s also almost inevitable, because suddenly life has no meaning. They spend the rest of their lives kicking against the pricks, so to speak, completely confident that when life is over there’s nothing. They see religion as a form of self deception — a mirage on the horizon with form but no substance. Each one creates his or her own values and concepts of morality, each of which can be dispensed with should it become necessary. And in my entire life, I’ve never seen an atheist who was selfless, loving of his fellow man, noble, virtuous, inspiring, imbued with integrity or having the ability to mete out justice balanced with mercy. One need only look at the recent crop: Dawkins, Hitchens, Madalyn Murray O’Hair, Margaret Sanger, Bill Maher and many others, and their idea of helping out their fellow man is to tear down crosses, eliminate the ten commandments from schools and state property and, oh yes, provide free abortions to whoever wants one. It’s very rare that you’ll find one in a soup kitchen or on a suicide hotline.

So it shouldn’t be a surprise that atheists on this site tend to be bitter, self-serving, arrogant know-it-alls who frequently spout off their own opinions without bothering to elucidate them with substantive facts. They reduce anything they don’t like to it’s lowest common denominator and then they try to hack it apart, all the while ballyhooing their own baseless opinions as if their merits were self evident. Some have even publicly declared themselves to be “brights” as opposed to the stupid, run-of-the-mill saps who cling to their Bibles and their guns.

These goigts have a right to their views, of course, but it’s their rudeness and insufferable lack of tolerance that makes them so delightful to be around and to engage in friendly banter. So don’t let anyone tell you atheism isn’t a religion. It’s a religion that seizes upon one’s mind and ultimately makes a person spiritually enfeebled in the process. This causes them to think religion degrades a person (as is evident from the posts on this forum), but in the end it really makes them curmudgeons.

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132

the bible and its prophecies

by Crazyguy in

i have been doing a lot of research on the bible and its roots so to speak and its becoming clearer that the jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own.

its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like daniel probably written about a hundred years before christ and some of it maybe even after.

but what i don't get is the prophecies.

Cold Steel

For all your pomp and arrogance, perhaps, O learned one, you can first tell us just what an "anti-Semite" is. Were the ancient Jewish prophets anti-Semites? Because they're the ones who warned the Jews of later generations that they were under condemnation for being a recalcitrant, stubborn people.

Peering through the corridors of time, Ezekiel wrote conerning the deliverance of the Jews from Gog: "... the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward. And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

So according to Semite prophets, the reason the Lord brought the Jews into captivity is because of their iniquity; because they trespassed against the Lord, and because of their "uncleanness" and their "transgressions" did he hide his face from them. And this he did all the way from the Roman conquest of Jerusalem all the way through the 1492 persecutions and through the Nazi ordeal. Only after that did the Lord begin to gather his people back to the lands of their inheritance. Even so, the Jews won't believe that Jesus is who he said he was until they see the wounds in his hands and feet. Then the nation will be converted in a single day.

Couldn't be clearer than that.

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